Kuchipudi is an incredible form of dance. What drew you to it?

Payal: “So I started training in Kuchipudi when I was four. I did not have much of an understanding of what the dance style was at that time; I got started into it by my parents. But it’s a South Indian classical dance form. If I were to draw a parallel with something you may be familiar with, it would be ballet — not stylistically, but in terms of its structure and the discipline it requires.

“It’s replete with footwork and hand gestures. It’s a way of communication and storytelling. We use a lot of facial expressions to communicate ideas and tell stories, really using the whole body. Rhythm forms the backbone of it, and it’s very rich musically — they go hand in hand, of course. I mean, music and dance naturally go together, so that’s essentially what Kuchipudi is.”

What inspired you to create this work around motherhood and miscarriage?

Payal: “It’s a combination of several factors. I’m at that stage where I’ve been contemplating motherhood myself, but I’ve also watched others on their own journeys. The work I make usually stems from a place of curiosity — that’s my entry point into any project. It comes from feeling like I don’t know enough about a particular idea or subject, and wanting to explore it further. Motherhood is not just a simplistic term. It is a landscape of emotions. I make work that I feel needs to be spoken about.

“For me, dance is the medium I choose because it gives me a way to discover and better understand that subject matter. Then I invite people onto that journey with me — I share it with the audience, who can take part either as spectators or participants, depending on how the work unfolds.”

Do you think it’s easy to cover powerful topics through art and dance?

Payal:“I don’t know if it’s easy, but I would certainly say that it’s my way. It’s my medium, it’s the medium that I know best, it’s the medium where I can express myself to the best of my ability. So that’s my medium. Dance helps me express myself best. I think there are a lot of things that remain unsaid. Art is a great way of telling people things. I think art remains with you, even when you leave a performance. The performance stays with you for a long time. And that is the beauty of art. That is the impact that art has on people.”

How long have you been working on ‘Just Enough Madness’?

Payal: “It was born, I think, somewhere around 2019. So, it’s been a long, long time. There were gaps in between, but it was always there in my mind. Even while I was working on other productions, there would be times when I would revisit it and then just let it simmer in the background and then come back to it. It’s been through different phases. It’s been re-researched and redeveloped, and now we’re finally doing this pilot tour with hopefully a more extensive tour next year.”

How can you convince someone to come watch?

Payal: “I think everyone has either been a witness to motherhood or experienced it themselves. You know, we’ve either seen our own mothers or watched a sister, a wife, or a friend go through the journey of motherhood. And if you are someone who has witnessed it or been on that journey yourself, I would just say: come see a glimpse of yourself in it, and come to recognise the emotional labour, the rigour that a woman goes through. I’m not talking about the physical aspect so much — I mean the more unsaid truths of motherhood. Yeah. So I think it’s really a way of celebrating motherhood in the truest sense of the word, not just superficially.”

Just Enough Madness & Caught in the Net of Rebirth is at Lowry, Salford on Tuesday 31 March 2026.

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Céline Gittens made history in 2012 in Birmingham when she became the first black ballerina in the UK to take the starring dual role of Odette and Odile in Swan Lake.

“That was exciting but I’m glad it has become more common now,” says Céline. “I think we are quite far ahead in terms of diversity in ballet in the UK compared with other countries, and especially in Birmingham. It’s the most diverse city I’ve lived in or visited on tour.

“I’ve been treated the same as other people, I’ve been given opportunities and I’ve got here because of talent, which is the most important thing. It’s great to be a role model for future dancers from different ethnicities who didn’t know that dance is available to them.”

Birmingham Royal Ballet is reflecting Birmingham’s diversity with the recent appointment of Cuban dancer, Carlos Acosta as its director.

“There’s a real buzz about the building since he arrived,” reports Céline. “I’m very positive about the future with Carlos, he has so much drive and ambition for the company. He just wants the best out of us. His passion is so inspiring and it will lift us so much higher.”

Since Céline’s debut as the white and black swans, the 31-year-old has taken the role a handful of times, in Birmingham, Japan, and at London’s Royal Albert Hall.

She has been praised for her beautifully fluent technique and strong dramatic presence. The Times said her Swan Lake performance was “frail and beautiful” and “completely alluring”.

It’s a highly challenging role, famously involving 32 fouettés in Act Three – that’s 32 turns on one leg.

“That is tough, but you get used to it,” says Céline who started ballet at the age of three in her mother’s dance school. “It is my favourite role. Apart from the technical side, the most challenging part is the emotional side and making it believable. You have to make the audience understand the anguish and pain of Odette and then completely transform into an evil seductress as Odile.”

Céline practises her steps at least once a day to build muscle memory and makes sure Pilates sessions, ice baths, physiotherapy and massages keep her supple and relieve tight muscles.

When she has to stop dancing eventually, Céline might turn to choreography, but thinks teaching is where her future lies.

“I have a passion for that,” she says. “I’ve taught at the Elmhurst School in Birmingham and I go back to Canada to teach masterclasses and summer schools. I think it’s really important to pass on your knowledge and passion.”

Céline was born in Trinidad. Her family moved to Canada when she 9 and she has since spent time in Melbourne as a guest dancer with the Australian Ballet.

The link between all these countries is that they’re all in the Commonwealth, so Céline says she was “very proud” to take part in the fantastic dance performance in Birmingham in 2018, during the handover at the closing ceremony of the last Commonwealth Games. And she’s excited about the Games coming to her home in two years’ time.

“I really hope that BRB can be part of the opening ceremony,” she says. “I can’t wait to show the world what a brilliantly talented and thriving city Birmingham is!”

Birmingham Royal Ballet‘s Swan Lake plays The Lowry from Wednesday 4 – Saturday 7 March 2020.

“The good thing about the British people is that they embrace difference” – read our interview with Carlos Acosta.

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How and why did you first start to dance? At what point did you realise that you wanted to be a professional dancer?

Rhys: “From an early age I was always interested in movement and music, but it was really when I went to see the show ‘Billy Elliot the Musical’ at the age of 10 in the West End that I fell in love with dance. From watching the show I was completely mesmerised how a young boy from up North (similar age to me at the time) was so determined to follow his dream of becoming a ballet dancer even though he had adverse comments and it not being the “normal” thing to do as a young lad.

“The show inspired me so much that I immediately asked my mum if I could audition for the part. I did and was offered a place in the training school of Billy Elliott which was very intense hard work – seven days a week – learning tap, ballet, singing and gymnastics, but I stuck with it and eventually became Billy Elliot for two years in the West End”.

Where did you train in Manchester? What were your other hobbies/interests growing up there?

Rhys: “I trained in a dance school called Centre Pointe in Denton for six years, before I moved to London to start at the English National Ballet School”.

Tell me a bit more about how you got the role of Billy Elliot in the West End.

Rhys: “There was an open audition in Leeds and I thought I would just go for it as I’ve always wanted to sing, dance and act even though I had no proper training before the audition. I was incredibly lucky and they must of saw something in me because I was offered the role”.

Is there any dancer in particular who inspires you, or who you especially admire?

Rhys: “I feel so lucky that I’m in such an incredible company with lots of inspiring and talented artists, so I really do look up to my fellow colleagues at English National Ballet, especially Joe Caley, Jeffrey Cirio, Aitor Arrieta and Barry Drummond”.

What drives your passion to dance?

Rhys: “It was during my Billy Elliot days that I truly developed a passion for dance. Dance became everything to me; when I performed something inside ignited and made me feel so alive. Over the years as I’ve matured as a dancer and become a professional, this feeling has grown stronger”.

Have you had to sacrifice anything to pursue your dream of becoming a professional dancer?

Rhys: “Like many dancers, I have had to sacrifice so much time in order to pursue this career choice. Many little things like missing birthday parties as a kid and other family events I’ve missed because of this career. You make sacrifices to your personal life in being a ballet dancer, because of the time-consuming nature of it. It can be upsetting but at the end of the day it’s what I love to do so it’s worth it”.

What are some of your favourite places to visit in Manchester when you are home

Rhys: “Obviously, my home! Spending time with my family is honestly my favourite thing in the world. I also like to go back to my dance school (Centre Pointe) to see my old teachers and friends”.

What have been the highlights of your career at English National Ballet so far?

Rhys: “Last year I had the opportunity of working with my favourite choreographer, the legendary William Forsythe. Being a part of his new work Playlist (Track 1, 2) was a truly special moment to start off my professional career and I will cherish the entire experience for the rest of my life. Playlist was recently nominated for an Olivier Award for ‘Best New Dance Production’ and won a South Bank Sky Arts Award which has made me even more proud to have been a part of it. Last season I was lucky enough to dance the ‘Neapolitan Dance’ in Derek Deane’s Swan Lake, a role that I’ve always wanted to do growing up and to do it at such a young age was so rewarding. I was also voted the ‘People’s Choice’ winner at ENB’s Emerging Dancer competition earlier this year – which definitely has to be a highlight of my career so far”.

How did it feel to be named the People’s Choice winner at this year’s Emerging Dancer competition?

Rhys: “It was so unexpected and a lovely cherry on top of the cake to finish my second season with the company. It meant so much that people saw me onstage and enjoyed it so much that they voted for me to be their People’s Choice winner. Audiences across the UK and world can vote for the winner of that award throughout the season, so it’s a very special accolade to win”.

What are you most looking forward to, coming back to Manchester to perform Cinderella?

Rhys: “I’m very excited to be performing a soloist role for the first time in my hometown. I’m so grateful that all my friends and family can see me on stage doing what I love”.

Do you feel like you’re representing Manchester when you perform across the UK and internationally?

Rhys: “I do, as I’m the only one from English National Ballet that is from Manchester and I feel that it is important for local dancers in Manchester to see someone who’s out there doing it and achieving what they want to”.

What do you miss most about Manchester?

Rhys: “Sausage rolls and ‘all right, love’ greetings”.

Cinderella is at the Palace Theatre, Manchester from 17-19 October 2019.

Alongside performances, English National Ballet will host a range of workshops and events throughout the tour, aimed to provide a gateway into the world of ballet and the productions the Company is touring this season. Activities include dance workshops for all ages, live drawing and behind-the-scenes talks. Visit their website for more details.

Read our review of ENB’s Cinderella at Manchester’s Palace Theatre.

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